tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post6502402329725877718..comments2023-10-25T08:46:20.242-05:00Comments on The Distributist Review: Is There A Bellocian Response For Today’s Economic Crisis?John Médaillehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16463267750952578888noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-75961431538257965572009-03-23T23:21:00.000-05:002009-03-23T23:21:00.000-05:00[Well, I've protested abortion and help fund raise...[Well, I've protested abortion and help fund raise for the Pro-Life movement along with other conservative and Christians and what you we have to show for it? <BR/><BR/>Essentially nothing. Roe vs. Wade is still law and abortion is on the rise again and will probably reach record levels during this depression. ]<BR/>-------------<BR/>I think the problem lies in the fact that the media is in the hands of those with an agenda . If people were educated , graphically and en masse , about what an abortion really is , abortions would be greatly diminished . <BR/><BR/>Also , there is a high demand for adoption , if women who were considering abortion were to be financially rewarded by the adoptees for carrying to term and contracting their baby to an adoption and at the same time these women were seen in the culture in a postive way , abortions would be practically non-existant .<BR/><BR/>What is needed is for there to be a media "regime change "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-36478026964720832912009-03-16T09:31:00.000-05:002009-03-16T09:31:00.000-05:00http://www.employeeownedauto.org/2601.htmlHere's a...http://www.employeeownedauto.org/2601.html<BR/><BR/>Here's a solution (above) for auto production that is not Bellocian or perfect but could open the way for auto workers to develop a more Guild-like production system.<BR/><BR/>I'd appreciate comments on it.Tom Laneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01811615310314303793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-56683454944698233372009-03-14T20:37:00.000-05:002009-03-14T20:37:00.000-05:00Pope's recent off-the-cuff calling for dialog re: ...Pope's recent off-the-cuff calling for dialog re: crisis:<BR/><I>"to block the domination of egoism, which presents itself under the pretenses of science" </I> translated at Acton blog<BR/>http://www.acton.org/commentary/511_pope_benedict_economic_realism.php<BR/>He recognizes that macroeconomics will not be realized in microeconomics without a conversion of hearts:<BR/>"<I>... education in justice is a priority, we can also say the priority."</I> and <I>"... good structures will not be realized if justice is opposed by the egoism of competent people."</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-85392764814454253782009-03-11T19:46:00.000-05:002009-03-11T19:46:00.000-05:00Looks like a bit of the Chicken vs. the Egg kind o...Looks like a bit of the Chicken vs. the Egg kind of debate on what cause what and I'm not that good of an economic historian to make any general determination. <BR/><BR/>In general, I don't saying the problem is over production because in the Third World often thanks Imperial looting there is extreme under production. <BR/><BR/>Take a look at Sudan where you have excellent soil but no water so you have famines where you should have a breadbasket. <BR/><BR/>I find it hard argue that we shouldn't be mass producing tractors and power plants so we can start saving human lives. <BR/><BR/>Quote: "We agree with the effects, but we both disagree with the cause, much as I would say contraception leads to abortion, while others believe abortion is the root cause of the depreciation of life. Both sever humanity, but make no mistake, it all begins with contraception."<BR/><BR/>This is kinda of topic but you brought it up and I've been thinking about this issue some.<BR/><BR/>I agree that contraception is closer to the root cause because says essential producing human life a an expense to be gotten rid of using technology. It is a Malthusian, Eugenic, and even oligarchical view of man. <BR/><BR/>But then comes question of how we fight contraception? <BR/><BR/>Well, I've protested abortion and help fund raise for the Pro-Life movement along with other conservative and Christians and what you we have to show for it? <BR/><BR/>Essentially nothing. Roe vs. Wade is still law and abortion is on the rise again and will probably reach record levels during this depression. <BR/><BR/>So where did we go wrong? This is my thinking and tell me where I go wrong because I'm probably going to way outside the box on this one because I'm going to address the economics of abortion.<BR/><BR/>I think we failed to understand what has been called the "law of attraction." <BR/><BR/>We have been trying to negate of frame of thought but every time we do that we concede the operation of the frame. For example, say we ban contraceptives? What have we done? Have we made anyone stop wanting to using contraceptives? No, we merely made it more expensive like narcotics. People will still seek contraceptives because they have false beliefs about human life. <BR/><BR/>As long as people believe that abortion or contraception are tools in cutting an unnecessary expenses out of their lives they will continue use those technologies and fight anyone who opposes are attacking their "right to control their own bodies" etc.. etc... Now they what are really saying is that they want the "right" to pursue what they think is their is economic self interest. <BR/><BR/>So how do we change this believe and teach people the truth that they are not merely reducing an economic cost but rather destroying the economic blessing of human life and the potential for real value in life altogether?<BR/><BR/>My solution is radical and many will say it is too dangerous and potentially worse the problem but I'm tired of tilting at windmills arguing about "rights."<BR/><BR/>What is abortion? What is contraception? Answer: They are technology that enable modern society to hide eugenics and infanticide. <BR/><BR/>So we can defeat evil technology with good technology. Technology teaches us and if we develop "artificial wombs" the very development of that technology to end of replacing the practice of abortion will destroy the culture of death because we are no longer mobilizing our economy to destroy our children but to save them. <BR/><BR/>It robs the Eugenist's of the arguments about "right to control her own body" and other such nonsense by physically showing that real control over one's body creates life and doesn't destroy it. <BR/><BR/>Although it may upset Libertarians, I think we should have a national project akin to the Moon Shot to this development technology because I want to bring entire nation into this process of creating to protect human life. But even if we can't do this with the government help I still think we should do it.<BR/><BR/>Well I'll let you guys rip this line of thinking apart but I have been thinking about some of the counter arguments and I don't think they work but I wouldn't want to influence your reactions to this idea at this time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-56154794523642884522009-03-11T11:06:00.000-05:002009-03-11T11:06:00.000-05:00In general, I would say that overproduction = unde...In general, I would say that overproduction = underconsumption = underpayment. But there is a problem with mass production even if there was proper payment, because at some point a market becomes saturated. If you are producing faster than rising population and needs dictate, sooner or later you will reach a limit. The problem is really better diagnosed by Kevin Carson, who points out that a "supply-push" economy, where you turn out goods whether there is demand or not, and then rely on advertising to create demand, will always face this problem. Distributed industrial systems are "demand-push," creating products in response to demand and hence with less possibility of overproduction.John Médaillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16463267750952578888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-47920643440209731192009-03-11T07:26:00.000-05:002009-03-11T07:26:00.000-05:00Hi Septeus,First, I want to thank you for your rep...Hi Septeus,<BR/><BR/>First, I want to thank you for your reply. <BR/><BR/>Let’s start with your comment that centralization of capital was the result of industrialization. We agree. But we disagree with the root problem. Belloc and Penty both believed that mass production itself was the cause leading to waste, planned obsolescence, etc., not only the lowering of wages. Mass production leads to overproduction because demand cannot possibly keep up with the supply. A shoe factory creating one particular shoe cannot sustain itself producing millions of pairs of shoes to a population of thousands. Sure it would turn a profit in the short term, but would cease to sell in the long, unless it lowered its prices dramatically (thus why Leo XIII said it was immoral to lower prices to the detriment of employees), eliminated local producers, lowered wages, fabricated cheap quality goods, monopolized, and created artificial want. <BR/>Mass production then is untenable without the elimination of widespread ownership, and once it achieves it, lowers wages because it can pursue a greater maximization of profit.<BR/><BR/>Mass production also leads to free trade, which only serves that same concentration of capital. What happened with the repeal of the Corn Laws in 19th century England? What is happening today to Mexico? Domestic production is crushed and the local farmer finds himself headed to the city to work in a factory.<BR/><BR/>This “opium” is the result of mass production first, concentrated capital second. <BR/>We agree with the effects, but we both disagree with the cause, much as I would say contraception leads to abortion, while others believe abortion is the root cause of the depreciation of life. Both sever humanity, but make no mistake, it all begins with contraception.<BR/><BR/>I don't disagree that capital is centralized post-mass production, but that is easy to observe, as a decentralized marketplace would always lead to widespread capital (and this requires the more important wide diffusion of property). Neither would I disagree if you were to say the intent was the concentration of capital all along. But I would disagree that overproduction, the effects of mass production, was not the principle agent.Richard Alemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05272016770106926094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-57493977996494537022009-03-10T17:38:00.000-05:002009-03-10T17:38:00.000-05:00I'm actually thinking that it might be both depend...I'm actually thinking that it might be both depending on the businesses involved. I do know of situations where people are overpaid without considering the number of customers. <BR/><BR/>Regardless of "over production" or "underpayment" it is a function centralized capital not be able to judge demand because it doesn't understand the direct stake because ownership is removed from the physical process of economy. Capital is just shareholding instead of stakeholding so there's no "harmony of interest."<BR/><BR/>Cooperatives go a long way to correct this problem. The era is top down organization is over the era of the network has arrived and until we stop looking at the fake value of shareholder paper and start building an economy around stakeholder value we are heading for a "New Dark Age" not unlike the 14th century with the Lombard banking collapse. <BR/><BR/>Hopefully, we Distributists and Decentralists of all types can network and mobilize before we are in total breakdown complete with plagues and a new "Black Death." <BR/><BR/>We are really in moral crisis concerning the question of human value that started a long time ago with the "Enlightenment" elites rebellion against the classicalism and Christian Orthodoxy that created Western Civilization and slowly infected the entire world. But I believe we have an opportunity now that our very elites are bankrupt and without ideas and perhaps even fearful of the uncertain world their corruption has created perhaps even members of the elites will begin to look back and consider of the universal truths regarding human beings that made the "West" the "West." <BR/><BR/>It's not like we haven't been here before and God's truth won't prevail. We just need to to learn to accept it. <BR/><BR/>A "lost decade" to teach us would be well worth it considering the peril we face if we refuse to learn and obey. <BR/><BR/>What I'm seeing as are only options at this point are a "lost decade" to revive moral leadership or a least 4 generations of a Dark Age.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-75128802000391249782009-03-10T15:26:00.000-05:002009-03-10T15:26:00.000-05:00Sept, Excellent observation: not overproduction, b...Sept, Excellent observation: not overproduction, but underpayment. Obviously, if the markets cannot be cleared, it is because people do not have the purchasing power with which to clear them.John Médaillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16463267750952578888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7608702.post-69744917328987437312009-03-10T14:48:00.000-05:002009-03-10T14:48:00.000-05:00I'm sorry but I didn't follow this post at all. Yo...I'm sorry but I didn't follow this post at all. You seem to be recycling the Malthusian myth of the crisis of "over production" rather than the better model of the American School or the German Historical School's that the problem is centralization of capital that occurred with industrialization. <BR/><BR/>The problem ,as I can see it, is that centralized capital after mass production consistently undervalues the labor thus fails to provide enough payment needed to purchase the goods. It's not a crisis of over production but "underpayment." The reason capital tends to underpay the workers is because the farther away the owner of capital is from the worker less they understand Say's Law i.e. workers are your consumers. I agree with rest of your analysis but the general "over production" is an illusion created by underpayment of workers. <BR/><BR/>The only true forms of over production come in the form of cultural pollution i.e. "opium" for the minds of the working class to make them powerless against the Capital Ownership class which is actively stealing the value of their labor and then selling them debt to ensure necessary consumption. As the debt increase the form of production shifts from "things of permanence" to "opium" and "bread and circuses." So we have a over production things of fleeting value and the under production of real value. That's the real crisis of "overproduction" resulting from underpayment of labor which is the result of the centralization of capital.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com